Talk:State/Pennsylvania

COVID changing my tune

Time has a way of changing things, and so does COVID. If you take a look at the discussion at the very bottom of this page ("Sean Carney"), you'll see a debate from 10 years ago where I make the argument that 8-event scores shouldn't count toward records.

Because literally all of PA isn't doing speech and interview in 2021, and the fact that there wasn't a state competition in 2020, it feels really unjust to lock students for these two years out of records.

So, I'm making a unilateral decision to include 8-event, extrapolated scores in the record books, as well as give Seneca Valley an unofficial state title for 2020. They were loaded for bear and it was unlikely for any team to catch them.

You'll see raw scores in parentheses, and I'm going to go back to the old "E-Nationals" overall medalists and awarding them their place in PA history.

Sorry it took ten years for me to come around. I doubt anyone will actually read this. ~pjc5000, 2/9/2021

1985 / 1986

There are two State titles marked as "1986" in the table. I'm assuming the second one is actually 1985, but could someone tell me if something's up? Vaaarr 21:23, 11 June 2007 (PDT)

I agree, and yes, I believe it to be 1985. KortEverettJackson 18:46, 13 June 2007 (PDT)

It was. I checked the editor, which linked to the 1985 page (doesn't exist yet), but the display here said 1986. It has been corrected. KortEverettJackson 18:50, 13 June 2007 (PDT)

Collegiate Academy

A note to anyone editing this page: my alma mater, the Northwest Pennsylvania Collegiate Academy, has an unfortunately long name. However, please take care to abbreviate it to an abbreviation we do actually use to refer to ourselves--"Northwest Collegiate Academy" is not our usual term. We prefer "Collegiate Academy" if you're going to abbreviate, and it's actually shorter, so everyone wins this way. Vaaarr 06:14, 24 March 2008 (PDT)

Top 10 Lists

I suggest we make a top 10 list for each GPA category (see TX and CA pages). So return Faytak to the honors list?Madcap 15:39, 13 October 2009 (UTC)Madcap

Agreed with above comment - but please leave it as a top 10. I will be asking around for state score reports from early years to post, now that I am in the coaching world. - Cerami

Now that I am looking at the page again, what do you think about only having a decathlete's top official competition (regional, state, national) score as their place holder in the top 10? That was the original spirit of this when I first wrote the PA pages, was to see what the all-time greatest PA team would be, the three honors, scholastic, and varsity ever to compete in PA. This way, we won't get "Super-Decathlete"'s 2007, 2008, and 2009 scores appearing three times in the top 10. That also being said, I don't feel that we quite have the data to make a top 10. The top three were relatively easy, because coaches knew who the best were, and in 2004, I collaborated with Justin Eichenlaub of McDowell to find data in old score reports dating back to 1987. I am in the process of getting that data in my own hands again to continue the full archive of PA state scores. Extrapolating a top 10 in PA is difficult, because we're missing over two-thirds of the relevant data. What I see now is a lot of self-serving of 2007, 2008, and 2009 teams putting their own names up in a "top 10." I am going to copy the top 10 code onto my computer and restore the original format until we can get a more complete archive. That way, we could also do PA records and such for subjects, which would be another fun project. -Cerami (pjc5000)

Also, @vaaarr: I thought you referred to yourself as "THE Collegiate Academy"...

If you didn't already plan on it, I'd ask the state directors about what records they may have. One of them alluded to the fact that they at least have SOME, if not plenty of records by stating that she'd have to check the records to see if any team ever took first with the margin that Collegiate did in 2008 (over my team -.-'). --Jbroms 19:39, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I might be getting a good number of PA records after Nationals. We shall see. -Cerami

Duplicate Individuals in the Top 10 Lists

I was not able to get any additional scores, so I'm going to re-add the "Top 10" that was here before. The only difference is that I will make it so that each person's name can only appear once. I will also upload the spreadsheet that I will make. If you have scores to add to it, feel free to change/update. ~pjc5000

But we instituted a rule allowing duplicate individuals if the multiple scores come from different years. Read the rationale here: http://acadecscores.gilslotd.com/wiki/Talk:Scorers#Discussion_about_duplicate_individuals. The rest of the site (Top scorers for California, Texas, Arizona, etc.) follows this rule. If you want to implement a different system for the Pennsylvania scores, that's ok, but can you add a small note above the tables explaining your policy? Madcap 03:00, 14 July 2010 (UTC)Madcap

Thanks for the link, that explains your policies pretty clearly. Okay, that sounds good. I'll eventually do my research again to make sure this page coincides with the rest of ADSIC. ~pjc5000

Eastern Pennsylvania Academic Decathlon

New project: Updating EPAD Regional & State records, as well as doing subject team ranks like it used to be done. (pjc5000)

Sean Carney

I am removing Sean Carney's "E-Nationals" score, not to detract from his accomplishment, but I feel that record scores should only reflect competitions in which all 10 events are counted. In this way, we keep the records in the spirit of the "Decathlon" - all 10 events. If this is against DDSIC policy, please let me know. As a regional director, I use these records in my programs, and an E-Nationals extrapolated score can't be reflected as an official record. (pjc5000)

There is no DDSIC policy about recording E-Nationals scores, but I would like to respectfully disagree. I feel that we are really detracting from Carney's accomplishment by completely excluding him from the list.

If record scores only reflect competitions in which all 10 events are counted, that disregards the work of disadvantaged decathletes. Suppose I am a varsity in Pennsylvania and I work my tail off all summer, fall, and winter to prepare for Academic Decathlon. Let's say my regional competition ends up with only 8 events because my region coordinator can't find enough interview or speech judges (this happened at State/Illinois/2009. BUT I am not saying it might happen under one of the PA regional directors; I'm just saying it is a possible scenario in AD). I score 6,800 / 8,000, which is equivalent to 8,500 / 10,000, a new PA varsity record. Are you going to ignore my months of hard work just because I didn't participate in a full-fledged "Academic Decathlon"?

I'm not saying Carney needs to go back on the list. I'm willing to compromise - we could put him in a footnote right after the Honors list, before the Scholastic table. Madcap 03:28, 28 May 2011 (UTC)Madcap

The score, however, isn't equivalent, as the two excluded events (speech and interview) are uniquely different from the others - it's not as simple as dividing by 0.8 to get an equivalency, as seems to be the operating procedure in the situation described above. The E-Nationals reflects the tests more proportionately than the subjective events, which are events that need to be factored into the final score. For the purpose of Pennsylvania, all regions have a full-fledged Decathlon at the Regional and State levels and have been that way for many years, and the official PA records need to reflect that. I am definitely not opposed to having a "E-Nationals All-Stars" section, where E-Nationals overall medalists are honored. But, the top ten at least for PA, I feel, needs to be kept as a 10-event score. I'm sure Sean also doesn't want to be a point of e-contention either. Because E-Nationals is here to stay, I think we do need to find a way to honor those students who have done well in these competitions.

Since I'll probably never see an E-Nats score report on a regular basis, what do you think about honoring "PA National All-Stars" - any student who receives an overall medal at the national level, regardless of E-Nats or Nats? Pjc5000 03:36, 5 June 2011 (UTC)pjc5000

Sure thing! I like the PA National All-Stars Idea. I will make that section at the bottom of the page. Madcap 04:15, 5 June 2011 (UTC)Madcap